3 top tips from Drew Knowles
1. Put some consequence into the commitment
If you want to really change a habit or a certain behaviour over time, but it’s not one that say that you’ve dealt with before (you’ve sort of tried and hasn’t worked). One of the biggest things is to put some consequence into the commitment or the contract that you make, like let’s say if you and I were gonna do this new diet, but we know we’re a little unreliable or if we’re together we’ll get into cahoots. Before we commit this, if you don’t do the actions or whatever, over you know, if you miss two days or something, then you don’t get to buy any shoes for 6 months or something. And I don’t get to go paddle-boarding for six months.
There is no way I’m not going to do that work and take that action because there’s no way I’m going to have that consequence, get an act!
2. Be mindful of what you say ‘yes’ to.
A lot of people, I think they should say yes especially when they get opportunities, and they’re like, I should say ‘yes’, I should take this on, and maybe they’ll become over committed, or they may not be fit for it, but they’re like I should, and they may not do the best job.
Our identity, or our value in the marketplace gets built as much by what we’re willing to decline, as it does, by what we’re willing to accept, so practicing declining things regularly, and with a real sort of finesse and grace, and even stating I have to say ‘no’, I’m declining because of X, Y, and Z so that then someone is like, we’re not gonna do this, because they’ve got a commitment to their wife or husband and etc… This starts to build your identity, through the things that you’re declining.
3. You don’t have to do it all
Recognize that as business owners, you don’t have to do it all or learn it all.
At times, you need to wear all the hats, but figure out based on your personality type, your dominant behavioral style, the value that you bring. Figure out, what are the things you are most useful for, like the best use of you? And double down on that!
If your behavior like mine, it’s really personal, relational and about people, figure out how to do more of that and then get other people around you who have the other roles or play the other sort of roles way better than you.
people, business, life, influence, transactions, environment, commitment, podcast, programs, exchange, consequential, ecology, influential, person, work, success, optimum performance, declining, real, study
Drew Knowles, Debra Chantry-Taylor
Debra Chantry-Taylor 00:12
Welcome to another episode of Better Business, Better Life. I’m your host, Debra Chantry-Taylor. I’m passionate about helping entrepreneurs and their leadership teams get what they want at a business and life. On the show, I invite successful business owners and expert speakers to share their successes. They are open and honest about the highs and lows of business and also life as a business owner. We want to share those learnings with you to inspire you, but also to help you avoid some of the common mistakes. My hope is that you take something from each of these short episodes that you can put into action to help you get what you want. Not only out of your business, but also your life. Welcome to another episode of better business better life. today. I’m here with Drew Knowles, who is the Vice President and partner of influence ecology, which is a global business education company. Correct?
Drew Knowles 01:01
Debra Chantry-Taylor 01:02
Drew Knowles 01:03
Great to be here.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 01:03
It’s lovely to have you we’ve also got RJ it’s I’m way down on by our feet as well don’t we? RJ who’s visiting with Hermes and Apollo’s we’ve got the whole gang in here today. Yeah. So hey, thanks for coming on the podcast, I’m really interested in a little bit more about yourself first, personally, before we get started. So tell us a little bit about your, the things you’re most proud of professionally and personally in your life.
Drew Knowles 01:25
So from a professional standpoint, a couple of things I, you know, spin on my almost a decade of my life working sort of very long hours, and very committed to delivering a lot of courses and programs and personal coaching, sort of training sessions with 1000s of people. And it took a lot, it was a lot of training, I sort of made a difference in huge amount of people’s lives. I wouldn’t recommend, you know, in hindsight now working that long and hard, and it’s partly what led me to the sort of, you know where I am now. But, you know, just really proud of the sort of amount of time I’ve spent professionally, just making a real contribution, real difference to people’s lives. Yeah. And then second thing is, back in sort of the middle of 2013, when I had a consultancy business that specialized around mental performance and stress with executives and CEOs, I took a bit of a plunge a bit of a risk and sort of shut up my office and pan out, went online with all my coaching and consulting and went to the US for three months. And the point of going there was to study with one of the cofounders of influence ecology, my company, I’m now partnering to really see if they’re the kind of philosophy and the methodology and what was happening there. Because I was a client myself at the time, I was something that I wanted to have be more of the kind of work that I was doing. Okay, and so I would have been for three months and studied and worked with one of the co founders and kind of the rest is history. And over a couple of years, I ended up getting offered a partnership in a role to help grow the company globally, and, and deliver the programs. And then now just focus here on sort of New Zealand and Australia.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 03:16
Okay, awesome. So how big is the company globally? And how many people have you helped?
Drew Knowles 03:21
Ah, goodness, me, I’m going to start in 2009? I’d say in the in the 1000s. Probably, I mean, it’s very structured, you know, study programs that we do, they’re not for everybody. But yeah, quite a number of business professionals. And then we are in about 13 different countries. And we’ve got most of our sort of staff from the US, but we’ve got faculty members in Australia, here in New Zealand, and in the US. And and then, you know, we have sort of a lot of webinars and podcasts and all those sorts of things that, and I have a bit more of a far reach around the world. So
Debra Chantry-Taylor 03:56
yeah, so tell me about that. What it actually is about influence ecology, it’s sort of it sounds quite mysterious. What is it all
Drew Knowles 04:03
of it is, is like a small university that teaches people to be more influential. And why I say that is because all day every day, you know, as human beings, we’re trying to get stuff done. We’re trying to meet our needs, we’re trying to meet our wants in life, we’re trying to get along with other people. And we rely on a lot of help from you know, all the people around us to achieve that. And all day we’re in these exchanges, you could say transactions as the word we use not transaction like a bank transaction, but a reciprocal and consequential exchange, you know, with another person to try and influence them to say yes to your invitation, your offer your request, the judgments and assertions you need to make the commitment you need to get them to, you know, make, we’re always trying to get people’s compliance all day long. That’s what it is to be human. And so transactions or transactional competence, what we teach is all about improving Your effectiveness, the quality and the effectiveness of all those exchanges that you’re in all day long. So becoming more influential isn’t like being some sort of Instagram star, or we’re not talking about that kind of thing. But just in general life, the better we are at influencing people in a very ethical way that’s considering mutual aims and mutually beneficial sort of transactions. You know, the better we get to live our lives.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 05:27
I’m pleased that you said that, because I was bit concerned, you know, that that manipulation, that manipulation came to mind if you’re sort of saying about always being influential transactions, but you’re saying that if they go away, they’re actually better benefits? Both parties? Yeah.
Drew Knowles 05:38
And the word influencer thinks, you know, people, some people are like, Yeah, I love and font and some people are like, ooh, it sounds manipulative, and all of that. And there are people out there that do it very unethically or manipulative. I think as kids, we learn to do that well. But, yeah, we really sort of hold strong to like, Don’t do it, if it’s not good for the other person, if it’s, you know, not considering how it might benefit them, whatever does benefit them. And if you’re going to use certain tactics of influence, things like, say, scarcity, which is a common one, don’t, you know, say something isn’t going to be available or isn’t going to be as available? To have that sort of influence? So that someone’s like, Oh, no, I want it now. And then five minutes later, say, Oh, no, it’s still available? Isn’t that sort of example. We? Maybe you ring up on the TV? And yeah, there’s only five available? Yeah, of course, it’s available. So that sort of practices not, it’s the opposite of what we want to teach people.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 06:37
So where do you start coming out? Iverson’s your course a couple of days ago, and I was very impressed with the way that you approach it. But give me a 101. Without a visual, what do you do to start thinking about how influential you can be?
Drew Knowles 06:51
I think one of the first things that we really have people confront and look at is that you’re always transacting. In other words, you’re always in a reciprocal and consequential I mean, consequential, like not bad isn’t just there is a consequence to the exchange. And so we have people start to look at, what is it like to be in a transaction or an exchange with you? Sometimes it’s good, yeah, sometimes it’s not so great. I know, for me personally, that there are some ways that I, you know, act and behave, or I go about things that that’s the way I think to do it, or that’s my natural way to do it. And that doesn’t always work for other people or maybe agitates other people. So I think where we start, especially in our study is starting to like pull the rug out a little bit of people’s naivety or their lack of being able to see the cost or the consequence, good, the bad, the ugly, of being an exchange and being in a transaction. And then we start to then have people look at their, you know, the ecosystems or ecology is the word we use. Because our environment is always influencing us. Sometimes, the people and the things in our environment, influencing us towards what we want towards, you know, the aims we have, but often there’s what we sort of call conspiracy ecologies that are pulling us away. Now, that classic example of if you’re not drinking, for example, and you go to the pub, and some of your good friends, even they’re not out to get you, but they might be like, I don’t worry, Deborah,
Debra Chantry-Taylor 08:23
just have one.
Drew Knowles 08:25
Yeah, oh, yeah. And so it’s that, you know, starting to get really aware and conscious of that you are always transacting, and you’re always influencing and being influenced in certs, just raising that awareness is then we start to teach some real frameworks and models and principles that kind of give you the, the coalified way, or the sort of decoder ring, so to speak, of how to navigate those exchanges and those transactions a whole lot better.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 08:58
Okay. And so what’s the benefit of becoming more influential or understanding that influential cycle and how you work with it?
Drew Knowles 09:07
Most of the business professionals you know, we we work with, often challenged by or struggling with, I don’t like this term, but it’s an easy way to get it, you know, work life balance, yeah, we would more say satisfaction across a broad range of areas of life. Yeah. And they may be succeeding with their money or their career might be really great. And they’re, they enjoy the actual side business work they do. But they’re stretched with time with the family or they’re neglecting your health or they’re not considering things like their sort of ongoing education or other areas of life being sacrificed. And so when people learn all the frameworks and models and then body then which is why we have study programs, not like just weekend courses, they’re like rah rah motivational, because it takes a while to unravel all the habits and behaviors and ethics people have that aren’t serving them instead. To build new ones. But as they practice very deliberately, everything you’re learning, and then measuring stuff in our programs that’s through tangible. The ultimate outcome over time is what we sort of say is more that whole life satisfaction. And satisfaction, as you would have learned that, you know, one day training we did, it isn’t about this mystical, magical, you know, miraculous life where everything peaches and roses, and you just wake up in the morning, bounce out of bed. You know, I’m all for that. But I certainly don’t wake up that way. And I’m a very enthusiastic person is someone who’s I’d just rather not even get out of it. This is more about looking at such a number of areas of life, we have 15 of them in our model, and starting to go, look, I can’t have the kind of dreams and you know, magic and miracles, every area can’t be utopic, you’ve got to really look at what would satisfy me what we’ll do, you know, what would be, you know, good enough that it’s like, a wholesome, great life. Yep. And so another part of the process, as you’re speaking before, is a lot of really accurate thinking. So looking at these different areas, and sort of going well, what’s the kind of health that would satisfy me? And the marketplace is telling us all day, what we should do, what we should do and all that. And sometimes it’s right, sometimes it’s not. But we try and ground people and really examining really exploring, like, what would be satisfactory for you. So for health, for example, like, health has always been a cornerstone for me, it’s where I started and wake up in the morning and doing some movement, physical activity. It’s just like brushing my teeth. Yeah. So my health aims are kind of like, what kind of things can I do for optimum performance? So, you know, I’m always got some crazy thing going on, like a boxing event that I did years ago, amateur boxing fight in front of 1000 people at Langham and yeah, I used to do CrossFit over a marathon. So I have measured like, four 4000 nights of sleep, and, you know, I’m full on about my health. Yeah, but that’s for optimum performance. Some people, what would satisfy them health is, I don’t know,
Debra Chantry-Taylor 12:14
yet probably the grandkids, five, or the grandkids not be in pain when they get out of bed in the morning. Exactly.
Drew Knowles 12:18
Yeah, doing some exercise, or four times a week and eating a generally healthy diet, that’s good for them. Yeah. So it’s very different. And same with money. Same with career, same with all these other areas.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 12:29
So I liken it to a business plan as well, right? Because at the end of the day, same thing, as a business, we have this kind of idea of what business should be like, and what success looks like. But success is different for every individual. And it’s about building up a very clear picture of what’s important for you and your business. And this is what you’re saying is around the whole business and life together are what is what’s the plan that we have going for? What does it look like? How do I actually get there? And then you help them to take that information and put a plan in action to absolutely,
Drew Knowles 12:57
yeah, okay. And coming from such a background of the sort of personal growth, personal development, all that sort of really, you know, wonderful, inspiring, motivational, you know, type of methodology, which, you know, I’m a self identified addict of that for many years. But that, just getting excited, just getting inspired. And you know, all the studies I’ve done around the brain, just flooding your brain with dopamine and serotonin and oxytocin will definitely have you willing and able to take on stuff that you might not have been able to, you know, have that breakthrough. But I will often have written quite a bit on what I call the excitement trap, where, you know, our well intended enthusiasm and excitement and inspiration could be a real danger to us. Because if we don’t check that, yep, and let the wonderful happy hormones subside, before we make some commitment to this new thing, or I’m going to go take on the world. And, you know, that’s where a lot of people I think, including myself every time we get deflated. Or we get so inspired by what we think success should be and what it would look like especially in a group of people that then we run out into the world and nothing has changed over that three day weekend or that sales meeting or whatever it is we got the raw insights, it’s not about squashing people’s dreams or saying things can’t be done, but I just think it’s important these days to be pragmatic. Yeah. And to just watch when you get hooked or hijacked viral that wonderful heavy you know, excitement, enthusiasm, because when people get angry, stressed, you know, agitated I think we’re well taught to just pause, don’t let the crop you know, the lizard brain press send on that email, just like we’re well trained, but we’re not really well trained and going. Okay, hang on. I’m so excited. He’s fired right now. Like, I could do anything like Well, alright, just just chill. Yeah. And let it enjoy that. And so, you know, I think it’s, I think it’s so important to, you know, for people to, like you said, really look at what does success work for you. Yeah, and, and figure out or help get people to help you figure out what’s the very objective pathway? And have you got all the resources that you need? Because all too often we again, we, you know, we rush projection, and we haven’t thought it all through and then it’s really you know, I went through this, like you get deflated, you get sort of disappointed and at times you feel really down because you’re like, why isn’t it working out for me as you set yourself up to
Debra Chantry-Taylor 15:27
fail as an awesome person? Yeah. So I liken it again, to the business stuff is, at the end of the day, even if you have the most wonderful plan, the most wonderful vision, you’ve still got to put in the work, right, you still got to make sure there is no magic silver bullet that suddenly makes everything fine. So getting clear on what you want. First of all, having the plan to get there, but then taking constant action is the only way you can really achieve success as well.
Drew Knowles 15:51
Yeah, and it sounds so simple. I think one of the important factors that all of our clients that implantology say, is we do our best to produce what we call a consequential environment, doesn’t mean we’re going to be you know, waving our fingers at you or telling you they’re not like that, or, you know, confronting you, it’s more about, we make sure you’re surrounded by sort of structions and things that you’re accountable for that you’ve committed to. And that, you know, if you don’t do the work, if you don’t take the action that you’ve contracted, do, like that’s our deal, it’s our agreement, you got to do all this, yeah, we’re gonna deliver, and we will remove you from our program, or we know we will sort of give you some warning shots, if you’re not complying if you’re not getting the help you need or you’re not receiving it, you know, when we offer it. And when people know that there’s that kind of both the threat, so to speak of, you might, you know, sort of not making it you might be removed. But also there’s that social dynamic of all these other people that are doing it. It really does have that environment mean, you don’t have to rely on yourself all the time to be so self determined and self motivated. You can actually produce environments around you that almost make it a foregone conclusion that you’re going to take that work. Yes, I do that work and take those actions. And so, you know, that deliberate practice does get boring. Yeah,
Debra Chantry-Taylor 17:16
they talked about that in Tomic habits as well as actually creating an environment. So that makes it easy for what I’ve had to do at home, I love a glass of wine, as you well know. And I have this great big wine fridge in the corner of my lounge, which is the first thing I do when I walk into the lounge. And so what I’ve actually had to do is actually take out an entire shelf of wine and put in fizzy waters. So that when I walk in, I actually have the option to pick fizzy water over a glass of wine. And it’s amazing what a difference it’s made.
Drew Knowles 17:40
That’s a very simple example of I think how much our environment does influence us in creating the right environment and the right things to shape your behavior. And again, coming back to the thing about you saying where success and all this sort of push, you could say for this, like go for the stars and all that stuff you hear that we’re all indoctrinated into.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 18:01
I’ve worked for from a beach anywhere around the world and only work four hours a week.
Drew Knowles 18:06
but it doesn’t have people sort of think about, well, you could save yourself a lot of time, energy and effort and willpower, if you actually stop trying to be nice. So
Debra Chantry-Taylor 18:17
hello, dogs, I know you want to be on the podcast,
Drew Knowles 18:19
We’re almost done. But like, there’s such a sort of you, it’s if it’s to be it’s up to me, like I have to be the person that motivates myself. And it’s way smarter and my reads actually go, No, let’s let me get a whole bunch of people and distractions that help helped me actually get there. And it takes a lot of the willpower element. And so I just think, you know, there’s, there’s so much value and the sort of environment not just working on ourselves to be more self involved. So I couldn’t be more better person. That’s great. Yeah. But it’s also important to figure out what is the environment around you? And it was one of the things I was gonna say,
Debra Chantry-Taylor 19:05
it’ll come to me first. Okay, I was gonna ask you in terms of three little tips we could perhaps give to listeners that they could actually think about that would get them started on this journey, if you like, what would they be?
Drew Knowles 19:18
Debra Chantry-Taylor 19:20
Anyone can read? Yes, it is prompting. Yeah, there’s something you’ve come across. It’s been really great in terms of helping you understand
Drew Knowles 19:27
what one tip is if you want to really shine change your habit, you can say or a certain behavior over time, but it’s not one that say that you’ve dealt with before you’ve sort of tried and hasn’t been one of the biggest things is put some consequence into the commitment or the contract that you make, like let’s say, if you and I like we’re gonna do this new diet, but we know we’re a little unreliable or you know, if we’re together we’ll get into Cahoots, yeah, you know, we might sort of go Okay, cool before we commit This, if you don’t do the actions or whatever, over you know, if you miss two days or you know something, yeah, then you don’t get to buy any shoes for. And I don’t get to go paddleboarding for six months like, yeah, and now, it’s a commitment to like, there is no way I’m not going to do that work and take that action, because there’s no way I’m going to have that consequence, get an act. And so that’s one tip, where a lot of people, they’re just not, they’re not willing to. So it’s not a strong commitment. That’s one. The other one is be really mindful and careful of what you accept what you say yes to a lot of people, I think they feel like if they say yes, if they, you know, get opportunities, and they’re like, I should say, Yes, I should take this on. And maybe they’ll become over committed, or they may not be fit for it, but they’re like I should, I should say they do and they, they may not do the best job, our identity, or our sort of value in the marketplace gets built as much by what we’re willing to decline as it does by what we’re willing to accept. So practicing declining things regularly. And with, you know, a real sort of finesse and grace, and even stating, you know, I have to say, No, I’m declining because of x, y, Zed, so that then someone’s like, ah, we’re not gonna do this, because they’ve got a commitment to this via, you know, wife or husband or persons that starts to build your identity, through the things that you’re declining. And then, third tip, recognize that, you know, as business owners, I think a lot of people listening who are business owners that you don’t have to do it all or learn it all. At times, you need to wear all the hats, but figure out based on your like personality type, your dominant behavioral style, sort of the value that you bring, figure out, what are the things you have most useful for, like the best use of you? Yeah. And like, double down on that, you know, if your behavior like mine is really personal relation on about people, figure out how to do more of that and then get other people around you who have the other roles or play the other sort of roles way better than you.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 22:24
We call it delegate elevate. That’s right. Yeah. And it’s all about doing the stuff that you really love, and I’m really good at and delegating the rest of the people. Yeah. Okay, puppies. We’re almost coming to the end. Now here. Okay, so tell me Drew. So if people have been interested, what they’ve heard, they’d like to find out more, what’s the best way they can do that? Do we have a taster? Do we have to look and find that information? How do they contact you?
Drew Knowles 22:47
Absolutely. So just go to our website, influentialyou.com. And that’s our sort of new brand that’s just been launched for a company. And there’s a load of resources, all the different sort of trainings and things that you can find there… Is there a quiz? There’s probably going to be all sorts of things like that. Or just go to my LinkedIn page.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 23:14
So that’s Drew Knowles. Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for your time this afternoon. Really pleasure to have you on here. We look forward to hearing more from you.
Drew Knowles 23:21
Thank you so much for having me here. Really appreciate it.
Debra Chantry-Taylor 23:23
Thanks Drew, Thanks again for joining us on Better Business, Better Life with me Your host Debra Chantry-Taylor. If you enjoyed what you heard, then please subscribe to this podcast. And let us help you to get what you want out of business and life. Each week we release a new short episode which will give a success story and three takeouts to put into action immediately. These will help you take your business from good to great. The podcast is also supported by free resources, templates and useful tools, which you can find at Debra Chantry-Taylor.com. I am a trained entrepreneur leadership and business coach, a professional EOS implementer and an established business owner myself. I work with established businesses to help them get what they want. Feel free to contact me if you’d like to have a chat about how I might be to help you. Or if you’d like to join me as a guest on this podcast. Thanks again to NZ audio editors for producing this podcast. See you on the next episode.
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